- From: Dael Jackson <daelcss@gmail.com>
- Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 06:56:30 -0500
- To: www-style@w3.org
Shapes
------
- RESOLVED: Last Call for Shapes.
- Deadline is 7 January, 2014.
WebVTT
------
- Everyone was requested to review the WebVTT spec for ::cue and
::cue-region for discussion in two weeks.
Dates for Seattle F2F
---------------------
- RESOLVED: Seattle F2F dates are 27-29 January, 2014
Remove nav-down/-up/-left/-right from CSS 3 UI at-risk list
-----------------------------------------------------------
- RESOLVED: Remove nav-up/down/left/right from CSS3 UI at-risk list.
Spread Radius Formula
---------------------
- Two potential ways to make border animation smoother were either the
cubic function created by fantasai and leaverou [1 + (x-1)^3]
or a bezier function.
- RESOLVED: Use cubic function for spread radius bending.
- Publishing a Last Call for Backgrounds was also discussed with the
group deciding to address some issues on the mailing list and
publish after next week's call.
CSSOM
-----
- RESOLVED: Publish new WD of CSSOM with improved changes list.
Grids
-----
- Rossen will look over the issues raised by SimonSapin and respond on
the mailing list.
Charter
-------
- Everyone was requested to look over the updates from Bert for next
week's call.
=====FULL MINUTES BELOW======
Present:
David Baron
Bert Bos
Bruno de Oliveira Abinader
Elika Etemad
Sylvain Galineau
Daniel Glazman
Israel Hilerio
Koji Ishii
Dael Jackson
Philippe Le H�garet
Peter Linss
Christopher Palmer
Anton Prowse
Simon Sapin
Alan Stearns
Lea Verou (IRC only)
Regrets:
Tab Atkins
Dave Cramer
Justin Erenkrantz
Brad Kemper
Kang-Hao Lu
Florian Rivoal
Dirk Schultz
Leif Arne Storset
Stephen Zilles
Shapes
------
ScribeNick: fantasai
<astearns> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-shapes/
astearns: I made edits so shapes is ready for LC.
fantasai: Sounds good to me.
glazou: Me too.
Rossen: Let's do it.
RESOLVED: LC for Shapes.
Bert: Which groups shall we ask for review?
astearns: SVG certainly.
glazou: DigiPub IG.
[discuss LC period]
[deadline: Tuesday, 7 January 2014 with the understanding that people
can ask for extension.]
WebVTT
------
glazou: plinss mentioned request from WebVTT
plinss: I forgot to forward their e-mail to the WG...
plinss: They want us to look at ::cue-region etc.
<plinss> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/text-tracks/raw-file/default/608toVTT/region.html
glazou: How much time to we have?
plinss: They didn't mention it in the e-mail.
<plinss> http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/#css-extensions
Bert: I'm interested in reviewing
glazou: Let's shoot for 2 weeks
ACTION everyone: Review the WebVTT spec for ::cue and ::cue-region
* RRSAgent records action 1
<trackbot> Error finding 'everyone'. You can review and register
nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/users>.
glazou: I've another concern about CSS stuff being in other specs
glazou: Shadow DOM is adding CSS stuff to Shadow DOM spec
<glazou> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23467
glazou: There's an experimental feature introducing two new
combinators to Selectors.
glazou: We should monitor this, before it becomes too late to discuss
anymore.
<abinader> I'd like to mention if is it possible to add CSS3 Text
Decoration properties as CSS extensions of WebVTT.
<abinader> Currently only text-decoration is listed there,
<abinader> But on CSS3 spec it is now a shorthand.
<fantasai> File that against webVTT
<abinader> fantasai: right
<fantasai> That's TabAtkins's summary of Shadow DOM stuff:
http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/#css-extensions
<SimonSapin> About Grid, I'd like to hear from Rossen on
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Nov/0382.html
Dates for Seattle F2F
---------------------
glazou: Dates are firm?
sylvaing: We currently have that week (27 Jan - 31 Jan) booked.
sylvaing: W can swap CSS/SVG, but everything is booked for that week
sylvaing: Right now CSS is Monday - Wednesday with a joint SVG meeting
on Wednesday.
glazou: Maybe we should freeze that so people can book their flights.
<dbaron> I probably prefer CSS first (i.e., M-W as currently planned),
because I'd like to be in the bay area at least a few days
that week, and M-W lets me return Wednesday night.
RESOLVED: Seattle F2F dates are 27-29 January, 2014
sylvaing: I will add more info next week to the planning wiki.
glazou: I got a request from szilles to sort out September dates
fantasai: Maybe we should sort this out on a call with more people.
* sgalineau didn't hear whether we had a ___location for september...
<plh> Sylvain, ___location is Sophia.
<sgalineau> Cool, thanks.
* dbaron is not crazy about meeting in Sophia...
ACTION glazou: send email wrt dates for September F2F
* RRSAgent records action 2
<trackbot> Created ACTION-600 - Send email wrt dates for september f2f
[on Daniel Glazman - due 2013-12-04].
Remove nav-down/-up/-left/-right from CSS 3 UI at-risk list
-----------------------------------------------------------
glazou: We have 2 or 3 interoperable implementations at this time,
implementing the four properties.
glazou: I contributed 64 tests that need review.
glazou: The tests are partly based on what Opera did.
glazou: The good news is that all tests are passed by at least 2
implementations.
glazou: So I don't think the properties are at-risk anymore, but
that's up to WG to decide.
sylvaing: How comprehensive is 64? Is that 64 out of 200, 100...?
glazou: I made a test for every normative statement in the spec.
glazou: I think 64 is final.
sylvaing: Or very close. Good.
fantasai: I don't see a problem.
sylvaing: Me neither.
plh: What are the two implementations?
glazou: Opera TV emulator is one.
glazou: 2nd/3rd are Smart TV emulator from Samsung and build of
Chromium that matches that implementation.
glazou: The emulator is difficult to test,
glazou: But we can use the standalone browser Chromium.
glazou: It's the same feature based on same code.
rossen: First one is Presto?
glazou: Yes, Presto.
Rossen: So we have one Presto and one Blink.
RESOLVED: Remove nav-up/down/left/right from CSS3 UI at-risk.
ACTION glazou: Make that edit
* RRSAgent records action 3
<trackbot> Created ACTION-601 - Make that edit [on Daniel Glazman -
due 2013-12-04].
Spread Radius Formula
---------------------
<glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Nov/0290.html
fantasai: At TPAC we were talking about the discontinuity of the
spread shape between border radius of zero and non-zero.
fantasai: And dbaron suggested making some kind of gradual increase.
fantasai: So after some informal discussions, we came up with a fairly
simple formula,
fantasai: 1 + (x-1)^3
fantasai: Which describes how much of the spread distance to add to
the curve radius while it is less than the border radius.
fantasai: This gives the same results in case of zero and in case of
border-radius greater than spread.
fantasai: But in between it interpolates smoothly,
fantasai: Slowing down the rate of change so that it hits constant 1
smoothly,
fantasai: And the rate of change at the beginning is not too fast.
fantasai: The result looks better than the previous definition in all
cases.
fantasai: Because it used to look weird when you had a small
border-radius and large spread radius.
<astearns> x = border-radius/spread
<astearns> also used for calculating the margin-box shape, where x =
border-radius/margin
<glazou> see http://is.gd/miUFlA
<fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-backgrounds/spread-radius
fantasai: You can play with formulas we tried there.
plinss: I added a bezier function to that demo as well.
plinss: It adds a lot of ability to change curve.
plinss: Cubic-bezier is what's used in transitions.
fantasai: I think the cubic looks good enough, but if people have
reasons to tweak the behavior (moves too fast here, too slow
there), you can play with cubic bezier
<Rossen_> ^3 ftw
<astearns> +1 for cubic from me
* sgalineau likes cubic best from the demo page
* sgalineau though the ability to use a bezier could be fun in a
future level...
<glazou> sgalineau Agreed.
<glazou> sgalineau We used to discuss names, now we discuss maths :-)
fantasai: My suggestion is to accept the cubic function in the spec,
and take it to LC.
glazou: Looks good to me.
Bert: I see little difference between them.
fantasai: You have to set the spread to something large, then bend the
radius very slowly from zero to equal to spread.
fantasai: The difference is in the rate near zero.
fantasai: Cubic looks better.
glazou: Do we want to extend functionality in the future?
dbaron: I don't think is something we want multiple options for.
sylvaing: Might want the possibilities, but for now cubic is great.
<SimonSapin> +1 for cubic, but this looks to me like a tiny difference
that you have too for. Let's pick something and move on.
RESOLVED: Use cubic function for spread radius bending.
fantasai: I want to take css3-background through LC.
astearns: The spec doesn't currently describe how background-position
animates correctly.
astearns: I can post that to the list.
fantasai: [Reads off Animatable line of spec]
fantasai: That's clearly wrong.
dbaron: I think a <position> can be represented as a pair of values if
you use calc() functions.
dbaron: You can represent all positions as two values of length,
percentage, or calc.
dbaron: That's what we do in Gecko.
dbaron: But you also can't animate between that purely in the computed
value space.
astearns: In Gecko you might do that, but the Animatable line doesn't
match the computed value.
fantasai: So, the reason the computed value line is written that way
fantasai: Is because in L4 we expect to add logical keywords.
fantasai: And you cannot animate between physical and logical
coordinates.
fantasai: So, we could make physical coords animatable like in Gecko,
fantasai: And for logical coords, you'd do the same but with keywords
for start start origin,
fantasai: And then you can't animate between the two.
dbaron: I don't think we should do this during the call.
dbaron: So I think this spec needs to write a definition for animating
<position>.
fantasai: Would that go in this spec, or values and units?
dbaron: Whatever defines <position>.
glazou: So, should we wait for that before LC?
dbaron: Could probably handle as LC comment.
[discussion about publishing timelines]
fantasai: We'll plan to publish Thursday, send in publication request
early, and just prep the draft after the call next week.
glazou: Anything else on that topic?
fantasai: astearns, you'll send in the e-mail to publish?
astearns: Yes.
CSSOM
-----
<glazou> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/cssom/
fantasai: I think it's pretty out of date. We should publish an update
<SimonSapin> +1 to publish
<plh> +1 to publish
Bert: I agree in principle, but what is state of current editor's
draft?
Bert: Is there a list of changes since previous draft?
Bert: I don't object to publishing, but was wondering if anyone could
tell me what actually changed since last time.
glazou: I have the same comment, don't object to publishing, but would
also like to know what changed.
RESOLVED: Publish new WD of CSSOM with improved changes list.
Grids
-----
SimonSapin: As discussed with Tab on the mailing list,
SimonSapin: Syntax of grid-template-areas.
SimonSapin: We would like hear from microsoft in particular.
SimonSapin: String values inside that property are "parsed as CSS",
SimonSapin: We end up with possibilities of double-escaping.
SimonSapin: Tab and I agree it would be better to define a small
special parsing
SimonSapin: For content of templates inside string,
SimonSapin: i.e. how to parse into identifiers.
Rossen: OK, I will go over today and send email. Don't think we need
to discuss over call
Charter
-------
glazou: Another item I'd like to discuss, maybe not today, is charter.
See message from Bert.
glazou: Please review charter and send comments for next week.
[Meeting closed]
Received on Thursday, 28 November 2013 11:56:57 UTC